William Carlos Williams

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13 Williams//Turtlezilla    Ryan

Not because of his eyes/the eyes of a bird/but because he is beaked- Williams is taking an animal and comparing it with the characteristics of another animal- a bird. A bird and turtle are very different creatures. This juxtaposition makes the turtle mystical and great, allowing it to fly and be an animal of prey. Through this imagery, the turtle gets lifted out of itself and becomes its opposite. How often do we wish we were different than what we are? Doesn't everyone at some time wish they were someone or something else? This is the plight of the lonely turtle.

 

birdlike, to do an injury/has the turtle attracted you- Imaging that the turtle has awesome power is an outlet to the observer. "to do an injury" is an interesting line as it describes the motive of the turtle, but who has seen a turtle that is a predator? Not I. What is the speaker in this poem seeing in this turtle?

 

He is you only pet./When we are together you talk of nothing else- The first use of "we" in the poem. It appears as if a child's imagination is ascribing all these great traits to the turtle. If the powerful turtle is a child's pet, what does this say about the child? It makes the child great and powerful. Haven't we all had these dreams when we were young? Through this kids imagination, he is experiencing a will to power. The child is infatuated with the turtle and all the turtle symbolizes.

 

ascribing all sorts of murderous motives to his least action- Another description of the power the child finds in the poem. The poet uses "you" many times to show the dichotomy between the child's magical world where the turtle is great, and the world of the father where the turtle is a second rate amphibian. The language is even accusatory at times. Is the father jealous of his son's admiration of the turtle? Is the child jealous of the role of his father? Interesting tension is building, but it is hard to say what. Williams is being ambiguous on purpose, and it is a great way of raising tension.

 

you ask me to write a poem, if I have poems to write, about a turtle- This is the pivotal line in the poem. The power is given to the speaker/poet. The poet now has the ability to shape the world of the child if he pleases. Through his poem, he can crush the child's world by putting the poor turtle back into his place. The climax of the poem where the reader thinks, "what is he going to do?"

 

The turtle lives in the mud/but is not mud-like,/you can tell by its eyes/which are clear- The first five words are full of incredible tension as it appears that the poet/speaker is going to let the child down. The second part of the line catches the attention of the reader, is a twist and provides hope that the father may put his selfish motives behind himself and recognize the importance of the turtle in the mind of the child. The poet eventually makes the right decision and sees the turtle thought the child's eyes. The poet uses a metaphor of the eyes of the turtle, which really describe his own eyes once muddied and now made clear.

 

When he shall escape/ his present confinement/ he will stride about the world/destroying all/with his sharp beak- These words are full with triple meaning. First, these are the words of a poem to a childe. Second, the author is entering the world of the child and viewing the true majestic turtle. Third, the speaker/poet is associating with the turtle and uses the turtle as a metaphor of his own hopes and desires. The poet wants to break out of his "present confinement" and ravage the countryside and be like god to his grandson.

 

Whatever oppresses him

in the streets of the city

shall go down.

Cars will be overturned.

And upon his back

shall ride,

to his conquests,

my Lord,

You!

You shall be master!

These lines are very powerful as the poet/speaker envisions himself being a powerful creature destroying the world for a child he loves. The turtle/man is willing to destroy cities to fulfill his own desires and to be looked upon by his grandson. Lines like these speak on many different levels.

This is one of the greatest poems I have ever read. I feel the electricity of these poems and all the meaning compacted into these two pages. I know this is not the end of the poem, but I have to go to class, or I will fail out of school! The rest of the lines increase the power of the turtle/speaker to godly proportions to live up to his grandson's expectations, fulfill his own desires to be important in the eyes of the child, and prove his unending love and friendship for the child.

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14. Williams // Response to Ryan // Christ Be Your Turtle    Jeff

"The Turtle"

William Carlos Williams

From Rag and Bones p. 55-56

 Not because of his eyes/the eyes of a bird/but because he is beaked- Williams is taking an animal and comparing it with the characteristics of another animal- a bird. A bird and turtle are very different creatures. This juxtaposition makes the turtle mystical and great, allowing it to fly and be an animal of prey. Through this imagery, the turtle gets lifted out of itself and becomes its opposite. How often do we wish we were different than what we are? Doesn't everyone at some time wish they were someone or something else? This is the plight of the lonely turtle.

I’m going to strengthen your argument Ryan with the notion that Williams is symbolizing Christ through the turtle. How do we teach our children about very complex subject matters? I think we often try to teach them about these things, like God, through something that they can relate to. In this instance, Williams is teaching his grandson about Christ through the kid’s curiosity with the turtle. I agree with you that "this juxtaposition makes the turtle mystical and great" by comparing the earth-bound turtle with the freedom and grace of a bird. Isn’t Christ like that bird? Besides the image of the Holy Spirit as a dove, Christ’s resurrection to me is something characteristic of a bird. Christ did ascend to heaven. As earth-bound humans, we can only imagine God ascending to heaven like a bird ascending into the sky. Finally, I want to comment on "This is the plight of the lonely turtle." Though Jesus was a very social man, I think he had a very lonely life here on earth. Being rejected, persecuted, and crucified can only be lonely experiences.

birdlike, to do an injury/has the turtle attracted you- Imaging that the turtle has awesome power is an outlet to the observer. "to do an injury" is an interesting line as it describes the motive of the turtle, but who has seen a turtle that is a predator? Not I. What is the speaker in this poem seeing in this turtle?

Jesus’ miracles proved that he had an awesome power to observers. This is what attracted many of his followers. Similarly, because of the awesome power of this turtle, the boy is attracted to the turtle. Jesus never injured anyone. He was not a predator and neither is the turtle. Notice how the turtle isn’t attracted to the boy. Instead, the boy is attracted to the turtle. I think this is one flaw in my argument. This is something that just "doesn’t fit." Our relationship with Christ is a two-way relationship. It is not a one-way. Jesus is attracted to us, and in turn we are attracted to Jesus. This poem, so far, gives no notion as to the fact that the turtle is there for us. The turtle is just another toy for us to play with as the following line indicates:

He is your only pet./When we are together you talk of nothing else- The first use of "we" in the poem. It appears as if a child's imagination is ascribing all these great traits to the turtle. If the powerful turtle is a child's pet, what does this say about the child? It makes the child great and powerful. Haven't we all had these dreams when we were young? Through this kids imagination, he is experiencing a will to power. The child is infatuated with the turtle and all the turtle symbolizes.

Contrary to what you believe here, I have to disagree with you and say that the child is NOT "ascribing all these great traits to the turtle." I think it is the grandfather that is doing the ascribing because the poem is from his perspective. However, the child could very well be in awe and wonder about these same qualities as the poem indicates.

I like this sentence: "He is your only pet." I think this could be the most powerful line in the whole poem.

 

"He"

This could very well indicate the male gender of the turtle, in turn hinting at the maleness of Christ.

 

"is"

Yahweh = "I am who I am" The power and vagueness of the verb "to be" is directly related to God.

 

"your"

Jesus (represented by the turtle) is YOURS. Jesus came to this life for YOU because he loves YOU. Ryan, I think that this is one of the reason why there are so many YOU’s in this poem.

 

"only"

The first commandment specifically says that you should have one and only God. God is our ONE provider. We trust in God alone. We need nothing else. If we trust in God, we will be eternally saved.

 

"pet."

I love my pet. For a boy, this is a great metaphor as God as a pet. Pets are there for you when you need them the most. Pets seem to know when you are not in a good mood and when you are lonely. You can tell your pet anything and it seems like a pet will understand. God is our only pet.

ascribing all sorts of murderous motives to his least action- Another description of the power the child finds in the poem. The poet uses "you" many times to show the dichotomy between the child's magical world where the turtle is great, and the world of the father where the turtle is a second rate amphibian. The language is even accusatory at times. Is the father jealous of his son's admiration of the turtle? Is the child jealous of the role of his father? Interesting tension is building, but it is hard to say what. Williams is being ambiguous on purpose, and it is a great way of raising tension.

I’m going to ignore the word "murderous" because that is another word that just doesn’t seem to fit. Everything small is BIG news to a little kid. I guess the chief priests in Jesus’ time thought so too. When Jesus cured a man on a Sunday they made blew this incident up into something of a court trial case. They did in fact accuse Jesus of going against God, and I guess the exaggerated word of "murderous" might be a good description to describe this. So, in this case I guess this word does fit nicely in this poem!

you ask me to write a poem, if I have poems to write, about a turtle- This is the pivotal line in the poem. The power is given to the speaker/poet. The poet now has the ability to shape the world of the child if he pleases. Through his poem, he can crush the child's world by putting the poor turtle back into his place. The climax of the poem where the reader thinks, "what is he going to do?"

This reminds me of Lee-Young Lee’s poem about when the son is asking his father to tell him a story. Here the grandson is asking his grandfather to write a poem about a turtle. Nice of the grandfather to accept his son’s request, or else we wouldn’t be reading this poem today. Sometimes we learn from the young! We should listen to our young! They ARE the keys to our future. I remember asking my grandfather to draw a picture of a chicken or some barn animal that was on his farm when he was growing up. I wonder where that picture is today. That was the first and only time that I saw my grandfather draw. I should’ve asked him again. Too late now.

The turtle lives in the mud/but is not mud-like,/you can tell by its eyes/which are clear- The first five words are full of incredible tension as it appears that the poet/speaker is going to let the child down. The second part of the line catches the attention of the reader, is a twist and provides hope that the father may put his selfish motives behind himself and recognize the importance of the turtle in the mind of the child. The poet eventually makes the right decision and sees the turtle thought the child's eyes. The poet uses a metaphor of the eyes of the turtle, which really describe his own eyes once muddied and now made clear.

Jesus lived on the earth. He was not just of the earth though. He was part spirit too. You could see this spirit probably in the twinkle of his eyes, just like in the turtle eyes. Certainly his apostles and the people most near to him knew that there was definitely something special about him. I guess I don’t understand what you are trying to say here about how the father might be letting the child down, but then he doesn’t.

When he shall escape/ his present confinement/ he will stride about the world/destroying all/with his sharp beak- These words are full with triple meaning. First, these are the words of a poem to a child. Second, the author is entering the world of the child and viewing the true majestic turtle. Third, the speaker/poet is associating with the turtle and uses the turtle as a metaphor of his own hopes and desires. The poet wants to break out of his "present confinement" and ravage the countryside and be like god to his grandson.

When Jesus escapes to Heaven, he will stride about the world sending those good souls to Heaven and those bad ones to Hell. I think this line is certainly alluding to not a turtle anymore, but God. Funny that Jesus is "escaping" this world. I guess we all want to escape this world of original sin for paradise, but we should want to live our lives not in dread of life! This is another part of the poem that just doesn’t fit.

Whatever oppresses him

in the streets of the city

shall go down.

Cars will be overturned.

And upon his back

shall ride,

to his conquests,

my Lord,

you!

Here is definite proof of my interpretation. I think the "you!" in this line is referring to what all the other "you’s" were referring to: his grandson. Williams wishes that his son will love Jesus and follow his ways so that he may enter into the kingdom of God.

You shall be master!

These lines are very powerful as the poet/speaker envisions himself being a powerful creature destroying the world for a child he loves. The turtle/man is willing to destroy cities to fulfill his own desires and to be looked upon by his grandson. Lines like these speak on many different levels.

This is one of the greatest poems I have ever read. I feel the electricity of these poems and all the meaning compacted into these two pages. I know this is not the end of the poem, but I have to go to class, or I will fail out of school! The rest of the lines increase the power of the turtle/speaker to godly proportions to live up to his grandson's expectations, fulfill his own desires to be important in the eyes of the child, and prove his unending love and friendship for the child.

 

Ryan

 

In the beginning

There was a great tortoise.

God was here since the beginning of time and even before that time period. I know that I’ve seen pictures of a great tortoise supporting the world on its back. Maybe someone else can supply me the information as to what culture believed this and so on.

Who supported the world.

Upon him

All ultimately

Rests.

As I’m typing this out, I wonder why Williams has such odd spacing in here. Does he want us to read this poem slower here with more pauses? I like the pause and extra spaces before the word "Rests." It’s so peaceful when it’s capitalized. It almost signals to me ultimate rest. If it wasn’t capitalized, I don’t think it would’ve had the same power that it has right now.

Without him

Nothing will stand.

I think we should pause in here. These are some pretty big concepts that Williams wants us to digest. We must pause and think of them. We stand because of God. We breathe because of God. We live because of God.

He is all wise

And can outrun the hare.

In the night

God can outrun the devil (the hare). Good overruns evil.

His eyes carry him

To unknown places.

He is your friend.

God is everywhere. God is omniscient and all-knowing. The eyes are again referred to here. I think the eyes are a wonderful imagery now when I place them up against an omniscient and all knowing God. God’s eyes are far more seeing than our own eyes. God is in the dark of the night right by our side when we most need him. God is always there for us.

Again, we are brought back to the early lines of the poem: "He is your only pet." These are definitely the most important lines in the whole poem. Jesus is your friend. This is the entire message that the grandfather is trying to explain to the son in just four simple words.

Jeff

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Wildness/Williams/brainsleep (the underwater fungus poet)     Adam

Danse Russe

To dance a subterfuge, a ruse, a rose, a rouge road, the cool known handiwork of a man unloosed.

If when my wife is sleeping

Where i should be is not where i am. Already morphing into my secret self. The forebrain rests but i hold on to a moment or a place between here and there, a bedroom, a desk drawer, high summer...gold on my webbed feet.

and the baby and Kathleen

are sleeping

Obligations leave. Responsibility dies. My impulses have bound me, but they can free me. Dumb, thorn run skin, scratched. Injured by my children.

and the sun is a flame white disk

the cancelled eyes of elementary science...arithmitic...no one's watching

in silken mists

sexual skys, need not the wife.

above shining trees,-

the thrust of wood into the empty. space makes matter. i stand forever inside a woman.

if I in my north room

dance naked, grotesquely

Still judging myself on their terms. I am elegant man, muscles in brush strokes, culimination of aeons of evolotion, i am grotesque on my own terms.

before my mirror

the sun grabs the shades and yanks down. no witness would live, but i crouch through and explode into my image, my image self, the imaginary animal portal.

waving my shirt round my head

i have enough skin.

and singing softly to myself:

an old phonograph. picture of my father world war one veteren that he never was. Or was that you William? Travelling doctor. Sing to unconfuse the two of us.

"I am lonely, lonely.

with who do you alone with? There is an ogre transcribing your every word. look in the mirror.

I was born to be lonely

you were born because of the alone. Lonliness is your egg and all the voices that spoke before you.

I am best so!"

you mock the distinction between child and adult. You are best so because you were first so. all things taste best fresh.

If I admire my arms, my face,

my shoulders, flanks, buttocks

against the yellow drawn shades, -

Don't deal in the subjunctive, it only hurts those body parts you list. You can see your old fish fin transmuting into the arm, the monkey droppings in your face, the alligator shoulders, the pure humantiger flanks, the buttocks of the ox, made of rocks

Who shall say I am not

the happy genius of my household?

The waking women. But you don't give them a chance. This question is never asked out loud until you are dead. You both can live in your own reality and die happy.

William Carlos Williams

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Williams // Clark Kent hold the Superego     Tim

Danse Russe, Rag and Bone Shop, p.6

If when my wife is sleeping

The speaker is a man. Since his wife is sleeping, it seems he is going to talk about something secret, something personal.

 

and the baby and Kathleen

are sleeping

I can imagine this man, maybe in his thirties. He seems pretty ordinary, almost boring. I feel like he is going to tell me about the deepest thoughts he has after everyone else is asleep, when his responsibilities are all but gone. I wonder what this man will say or do, since the speaker is a normal guy, what must happen?

 

and the sun is a flame-white disc

This image of the moon is very lively. The moon isn't pale it is a flame hotter than the sun during the day. The night time brings something powerful and passionate to this seemingly ordinary man.

 

in silken mists

above shining trees, --

Silken mists and shining trees sounds more tranquil than the previous statement; It seems like an opposing image. Maybe the image isn't tranquil, but beautiful, carrying the passion forward.

 

if I in my north room

dance naked, grotesquely

Since he is in his north room, he probably isn't doing this in the room his wife is sleeping in. He dances grotesquely, there is no beauty, there is something else. This is crazy.

 

before my mirror

He is doing this dance for himself. My friend adds: the mirror is like the relationship of the moon to the sun (described earlier).

 

waving my shirt round my head

This image is certainly wild, even primitive. I think of the time when I am through with classes and meeting and I take off my top shirt so that I can relax wearing just a tee-shirt. For me, this is like shedding my conventional posture, dropping my social conscience. The speaker's celebration shows his delight in experiencing his primal state.

 

and singing softly to myself:

"I am lonely, lonely.

His chant is interesting. He is lonely, he had this energy that he can't share with anyone but his reflected self. He can't do this wild dance with his wife and kids, they would worry about his sanity and their safety.

 

I was born to be lonely,

I am best so!"

The statement that his loneliness is innate, catches me. I assumed his primitive energy was contained by societal norms, but he is saying that he is born to do this dance alone. Perhaps he is saying that it is best if you only see yourself do this dance, it is not meant to be shared, but to reinforce individuality.

 

 

If I admire my arms, my face,

my shoulders, flanks, buttocks

His dance is grotesque, yet he admires each part of himself in action. Also, he admires his body parts, not his character or his soul.

 

against the yellow drawn shades, --

This image brings the story back into its setting. He is in his house, in a room where no one can see him.

 

Who shall say I am not

the happy genius of my household?

I find it intriguing that he asks who shall say when no one knows about his dance. I wonder now if he is the happy genius of his household. Does his wife have a similar rite even later in the night, or during the day? I also wonder about the title, I have taken only two semesters of French and no other languages, but in French this title means Russian Dance.

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Williams // Freedom dancing     Kate

 

Williams, "Danse Russe," Rag and Bone Shop, p. 6

 Freedom Dancing

"If when my wife is sleeping / and the baby and Kathleen / are sleeping"

These lines seem sort of mischievous, sort of child-like to me. When everyone else is sleeping, I sneak out of my room and . . .It seems to introduce right away a sense of freedom. I also like how he says sleeping twice. It adds an emphasis on that word. Also, it almost seems to create a rhythm, especially when read aloud, almost like the slow, even breathing of someone asleep.

 

"and the sun is a flame-white disc / in silken mists / above shining trees, --"

I really like these descriptions. They are vivid and yet created in so few words. "Silken mists" and "shining trees" gives a sort of magical quality to the images. It creates a picture in my head of those peaceful, sunny afternoons where everything is bright with sunlight and the light streams through the windows and floating dust particles, illuminating whatever it touches.

"if I in my north room / dance naked, grotesquely, / before my mirror"

This is such a great image--he is not just standing naked in front of the mirror, but dancing. I would imagine if someone were standing naked in front of the mirror he/she would be scrutinizing his/her body, self-conscious and unsure. But this man dances. The thing that mars this beautiful image for me is the word "grotesquely." I wonder why Williams uses this word. I guess it's fitting considering our culture's aversion to nakedness. As I said, I would expect someone to be scrutinizing their body in front of the mirror. Nakedness, flabbiness, fat . . . all these things are avoided in our culture. For this man to be letting it all hang out, and to be seemingly okay with it, well, I guess it would seem sort of crass, grotesque--especially if his body was less than our idea of perfect.

 

"waving my shirt around my head / and singing softly to myself:"

I really like this image; I can't help but laugh when I read it. It's so shocking to me, to my socially constructed sense of normalcy--this grown, naked man waving a shirt and singing to himself. The image is really striking, arresting. The man seems so free, so exuberant, so childlike. The "singing softly to myself" reminds me especially of a child, how children often hum to themselves as they play.

 

" 'I am lonely, lonely. I was born to be lonely, I am best so!' "

This reminds me of Rilke's discussion of loneliness--of embracing it, going inward, and getting to know oneself. I like especially that he's singing this softly to himself, as if comforting himself, like a lullaby. A grown man needing comforting!? Man, this poem is just shattering all my preconceived notions. :)

 

"If I admire my arms, my face, / my shoulders, flanks, buttocks, / against the yellow drawn shades, --"

He is admiring his body, another striking thing. It seems we are taught to be ashamed of our bodies, to be modest--we often don't even know what to do when someone compliments us. But here is a man who is admiring himself, looking at each individual part, finding pleasure in his shape. A beautiful image. I like the image "against the yellow drawn shades." It makes me think of the man as a dark silhouette against this yellow, glowing background.

 

"Who shall say I am not the happy genius of my household?"

The word choice of "happy genius" is striking here. The narrator does seem happy, but the word loneliness is most often tied to emotions of sadness. This makes me think again that he is talking of loneliness similar to Rilke, in the sense of finding in loneliness self-reliance, self-awareness, etc. The word genius is also interesting--nothing in the poem seems to imply that he's a deep thinker . . . he seems childlike if anything. But genius still seems appropriate. This man seems to have discovered a happiness, a contentment that many people haven't found. He seems to have found his inner child, his inner wildness. He seems to have broken from the mold of manhood. In this way, as an intuitive, free, innovative person, he does very much seem a genius.

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Williams // you CAN get out of the mud!     Joanna

The poem, "The Turtle", by William Carlos Williams (Rag and Bone, p.55), immediately intruiged me because of the way it sees the world through a child’s eyes. I am constantly amazed by childrens’ ability to find wonder in what would seem to most people to be every day things and occurrences. In the case of this poem, a boy’s admiration for his pet turtle has caused his Grandfather to see the turtle in a completely new way. Through the boy, the Grandfather sees all of the wonderful characteristics and all of the possibilities of the turtle. The Grandfather also sees great beauty and potential in his beloved Granson. But it seems to me that both the turtle and the boy are living in the mud- trapped by their circumstances.

The turtle lives in the mud

but is not mud-like

I think it is possible that the turtle is actualy the Grandfather’s symbol for his Grandson, or else a more universal symbol for anyone who is a victim of their circumstances. We are not told anything about the Grandson’s background or situation, but this poem makes me think that he is like the turtle, and is living in the "mud". Maybe he comes from a broken home, or maybe his family is very poor and struggling to survive. Whatever the situation, this is his Grandfather’s way of telling him that he can get out of the "mud" in his life- he is not a part of the mud.

you can tell it by his eyes

which are clear.

It is interesting that Williams comments on the turtle’s eyes. Eyes are such an incredible part of any creature’s body- they do so much more than see. When you look deep into someone’s eyes, you will find a form of expression and emotion that could never be communicated in words. I have never looked into a turtle’s eyes, but if I did, what would I see? (Next time I see a turtle I will have to try that. :o) The grandfather in the poem can tell by looking into his Grandson’s eyes that he has so much more potential than he can use. His eyes are clear and bright- not murky or shaded like the mud.

When he shall escape

his present confinement

Williams uses the word "when" here- not "if". I think that is very significant. There is no possibility of the turtle not escaping his present form. He has so much potential, and so much power that he will escape in time. This is another part of his message to his Grandson. This will not last forever- you will escape.You are meant to be and do so much more than this.

he will stride about the world

destroying all

with his sharp beak.

"This turtle may look calm and defenseless now," says the Grandfather, "but he has powers beyond your wildest dreams. You just wait and see!" The end of this poem reminds me of one of Aesop’s Fabels or Hans Christian Anderson’s stories. It is a wonderful story that will delight a child, and let his or her imagination run wild, and also has a very important lesson to teach them.

Something that struck me after rereading this poem is the first stanza:

Not because of his eyes,

the eyes of a bird,

but because he is beaked,

birdlike, to do an injury,

has the turtle attracted you.

This stanza didn’t really make sense to me until I had interpreted the rest of the poem. It seems like eyes are a symbol of hope in this poem, because the Grandfather talks about how the turtle’s eyes show that he does not belong in the mud. The beak doesn’t come in again until later, as a symbol of the turtle’s hidden powers. Maybe the Grandfather is realizing that his Grandson does not see the hope in his situation, and is only fascinated by power. I don’t really know, but I thought it was worth noting.

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